The "results" of the surge were actually the results of the Anbar awakening which began long before the surge. McCain tried to use the same lie you did, and was busted repeatedly by the media. And you're mixing up two different things in Afghanistan. And the "immunity" bill -- didn't actually grant direct immunity. Any more lies you want me to shoot down? is this some sort of pop quiz? This is all you guys have left, isn't it? One dishonest smear after another...

The "results" of the surge were actually the results of the Anbar awakening which began long before the surge. McCain tried to use the same lie you did, and was busted repeatedly by the media.

And you're mixing up two different things in Afghanistan.

And the "immunity" bill -- didn't actually grant direct immunity.

Any more lies you want me to shoot down? is this some sort of pop quiz?

This is all you guys have left, isn't it? One dishonest smear after another...

It's amazing how much "awakening" takes place when additional troops are being discussed and then brought in. A "come to Jesus/Allah/Mohammed" is not unusual under such circumstances. Use a bit of logic from time to time.

It's amazing how much "awakening" takes place when additional troops are being discussed and then brought in.

A "come to Jesus/Allah/Mohammed" is not unusual under such circumstances. Use a bit of logic from time to time.

You want to talk flip flop? Really?

You want to talk flip flop? Really?

Here, Hope, take the ball -- I have to go cook up some pasta in a wine/tarragon sauce. Feel free to cut and paste -- we'll need to paste it every day until November. McCain has flipflopped on warrantless wiretaps, Guantanamo prisoners’ rights, closing Guantanamo, indefinite detention of terror suspects, waterboarding, going after terrorists in Pakistan... ...and Russia’s membership in the G8, relations with Cuba, relations with Syria, relations with Hamas, relations with other rogue states, the Law of the Sea, divestment from South Africa... ...and Rumsfeld’s Iraq policy, a long-term presence in Iraq, the difficulty of the Iraq effort, Iraq timetables, the GI bill... ...and Social Security, abortion in cases of rape and incest, Yucca Mountain, the NRA, cigarette taxes, earmarks, mortgage policy, gay marriage, the MLK holiday, ethanol, the Confederate flag, intelligent design... ...and Bush’s tax cuts, his own understanding of economics, balancing the budget, the emphasis on the wealthy in the tax code, the estate tax, his own plans to raise taxes, his own view of the economic situation, the question of whether Americans are better or worse off... ...and offshore drilling, windfall taxes on oil, cap and trade policies, the gas tax, the Lieberman bill on global warming, the DREAM act which would help immigrants who graduate high school, his own immigration bill, border control, litmus tests for nominees, retroactive immunity for telecoms, Roe versus Wade... ...and lobbying reform legislation, requiring lobbyists to reveal donors, campaign finance reform... ...and support from Hagee, support from Parsley, the notion of joining Kerry’s ticket in 2004, attacks on Obama regarding Wright, Falwell and the agents of intolerance, support from Sam and Charles Wyly, campaign stops at Bob Jones University, support from Kissinger, support from Grover Norquist. AND HE MAY FLIPFLOP ON HOW MUCH HE HATES ROMNEY, IF HE PICKS HIM FOR VP.

Here, Hope, take the ball -- I have to go cook up some pasta in a wine/tarragon sauce. Feel free to cut and paste -- we'll need to paste it every day until November.

McCain has flipflopped on warrantless wiretaps, Guantanamo prisoners’ rights, closing Guantanamo, indefinite detention of terror suspects, waterboarding, going after terrorists in Pakistan...

...and Russia’s membership in the G8, relations with Cuba, relations with Syria, relations with Hamas, relations with other rogue states, the Law of the Sea, divestment from South Africa...

...and Rumsfeld’s Iraq policy, a long-term presence in Iraq, the difficulty of the Iraq effort, Iraq timetables, the GI bill...

...and Social Security, abortion in cases of rape and incest, Yucca Mountain, the NRA, cigarette taxes, earmarks, mortgage policy, gay marriage, the MLK holiday, ethanol, the Confederate flag, intelligent design...

...and Bush’s tax cuts, his own understanding of economics, balancing the budget, the emphasis on the wealthy in the tax code, the estate tax, his own plans to raise taxes, his own view of the economic situation, the question of whether Americans are better or worse off...

...and offshore drilling, windfall taxes on oil, cap and trade policies, the gas tax, the Lieberman bill on global warming, the DREAM act which would help immigrants who graduate high school, his own immigration bill, border control, litmus tests for nominees, retroactive immunity for telecoms, Roe versus Wade...

...and lobbying reform legislation, requiring lobbyists to reveal donors, campaign finance reform...

...and support from Hagee, support from Parsley, the notion of joining Kerry’s ticket in 2004, attacks on Obama regarding Wright, Falwell and the agents of intolerance, support from Sam and Charles Wyly, campaign stops at Bob Jones University, support from Kissinger, support from Grover Norquist.

AND HE MAY FLIPFLOP ON HOW MUCH HE HATES ROMNEY, IF HE PICKS HIM FOR VP.

ignore this post

ignore this post

Because it scares stupid people -- which is the entire Republican strategy. Corner the Stupid Vote.

Because it scares stupid people -- which is the entire Republican strategy. Corner the Stupid Vote.

I forgot that the most holy Barack does no evil! You guys truly believe everything you post??? I mean really?? To answer the post that existed and then disappeared regarding why I posted Barack Hussein Kerry. It was merely to be formal to be so jumpy people!!! As the Joker would say, "why so serious?"

I forgot that the most holy Barack does no evil! You guys truly believe everything you post??? I mean really??

To answer the post that existed and then disappeared regarding why I posted Barack Hussein Kerry. It was merely to be formal to be so jumpy people!!!

As the Joker would say, "why so serious?"

none of us have ever infered that he is infallible, we all just conclude he is alot better then the other guy. you wanted to make the argument that he is a flip flopper, and we simply said look in the mirror at your own candidate.

none of us have ever infered that he is infallible, we all just conclude he is alot better then the other guy.

you wanted to make the argument that he is a flip flopper, and we simply said look in the mirror at your own candidate.

HopeNation, My point with Obama all along has been that I felt that he offered hope of something other than a traditional politician. The fact that he's flip-flopped at all is what causes me discomfort. There have been changing positions by both candidates. I think each side needs to recognize that. This incessant "lies, busted" garbage that comes from your side anytime Barack's position (and/or changing position) is questioned comes across as if those arguing the Dem position are blind to Barack's slippery footing (and it's only McCain doing it). You can say Barack has changed his position less than McCain. That's a more honest argument (I don't agree but it's more honest) than suggesting that Barack has not changed his position at all (as others on your side do...which we all know is ridiculous). In the end the challenge we all face as voters is trying to understand who will occupy and lead from the Oval Office. The Candidate we've all known (from either side) in the Senate...the Candidate we saw in the Primaries...the Candidate and his positions as stated during the General Election? On that front I have more concern about Barack as his reputation is that his rhetoric is Moderate his actions and votes tend to be Liberal. As a Dem that may give you comfort. For me I would prefer someone who speaks and acts Moderate in the hope of finding middle ground that can help to move the Country forward.

HopeNation,

My point with Obama all along has been that I felt that he offered hope of something other than a traditional politician. The fact that he's flip-flopped at all is what causes me discomfort.

There have been changing positions by both candidates. I think each side needs to recognize that. This incessant "lies, busted" garbage that comes from your side anytime Barack's position (and/or changing position) is questioned comes across as if those arguing the Dem position are blind to Barack's slippery footing (and it's only McCain doing it).

You can say Barack has changed his position less than McCain. That's a more honest argument (I don't agree but it's more honest) than suggesting that Barack has not changed his position at all (as others on your side do...which we all know is ridiculous).

In the end the challenge we all face as voters is trying to understand who will occupy and lead from the Oval Office. The Candidate we've all known (from either side) in the Senate...the Candidate we saw in the Primaries...the Candidate and his positions as stated during the General Election?

On that front I have more concern about Barack as his reputation is that his rhetoric is Moderate his actions and votes tend to be Liberal. As a Dem that may give you comfort. For me I would prefer someone who speaks and acts Moderate in the hope of finding middle ground that can help to move the Country forward.

DPK you are kind of forgetting, the country doesn't belong to you (conservatives) anymore. You had 8 years and fucked that up so bad everyone went back to the left. Moderate to Moderate Left is the current middle ground.

DPK you are kind of forgetting, the country doesn't belong to you (conservatives) anymore. You had 8 years and fucked that up so bad everyone went back to the left. Moderate to Moderate Left is the current middle ground.

Obama's reputation? You don't need to rely on the agitprop of Sean and Rush. You can get the FACTS. Go look at what he actually says and does.

Obama's reputation?

You don't need to rely on the agitprop of Sean and Rush. You can get the FACTS. Go look at what he actually says and does.

HN you're correct in stating that Bush f'd things up bad enough that the whole GOP is now tainted as a result. The fact that McCain is even close in the aftermath is an accomplishment in itself.

HN you're correct in stating that Bush f'd things up bad enough that the whole GOP is now tainted as a result. The fact that McCain is even close in the aftermath is an accomplishment in itself.

dp, you are also correct to agree with HN about Bush tainting the GOP. Why then would you choose McCain, he supported virtually everything Bush wanted. If he did oppose Bush in the past, he has now changed his mind and now agrees with him. The only member of Bush's cabinet to draw his ire was dummy Rummy, and he was an easy target. There are too many photos out there of the two of them hugging, to claim any separation. Middle ground is not something McCain is noted for, if you happen to disagree with him on Iraq then you wish to surrender. Just yesterday he accused Obama of wanting us to lose the war so Obama could be elected. No I don't see any middle ground there. He is as petulant as Bush.

dp, you are also correct to agree with HN about Bush tainting the GOP. Why then would you choose McCain, he supported virtually everything Bush wanted. If he did oppose Bush in the past, he has now changed his mind and now agrees with him. The only member of Bush's cabinet to draw his ire was dummy Rummy, and he was an easy target.

There are too many photos out there of the two of them hugging, to claim any separation.

Middle ground is not something McCain is noted for, if you happen to disagree with him on Iraq then you wish to surrender. Just yesterday he accused Obama of wanting us to lose the war so Obama could be elected. No I don't see any middle ground there. He is as petulant as Bush.